My school taught "intro to programming logic & design" which supposedly taught  that but they didn't teach a language with it. Julie want's to learn how to program. She seems to be under the impression that I know enough about it to teach her. which I don't. I'm just starting to attempt to teach myself again. I know a few people say that you should learn the logic and design first. I kind of disagree, I thought the class should have taught some kind of language because it's hard to get interested when what your doing doesn't do anything at all. <div>On 4/26/06, Andy Lee <<a href="mailto:ALEE@courts.mi.gov">ALEE@courts.mi.gov</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> These things are usually taught along with a language through the Intro to Computer Science courses at universities. I think it's helpful to have some language in mind while learning, so that you can map your designs to code of some sort. I'm currently teaching Object Oriented Programming in Java using Bruce Eckel's Thinking in Java text, which has a good introduction to Object Oriented Design theory, and the basics of modeling with UML. The full text of the 3rd edition of Thinking in Java is available for free online, and a sample including the first 7 chapters of the 4th edition (includes Java 5 updates) is also available online. Being a proponent of Object Oriented Programming, I'd recommend looking into UML as a good tool for working out your designs, from Use Case diagrams to Activity diagrams to Class and Data models. There are a lot of resources available online for learning UML, and a really good open source product called ArgoUML from the Tigris project that simplifies a lot of the diagraming tasks. Start working on paper first though, and just sketch out your designs, the key is learning to design your entities, not use a tool. Hopefully I've provided enough buzz words and products above to allow you to Google your way to getting started. -- Andy >>> "Caleb Cushing" <<a href="mailto:xenoterracide@gmail.com"> xenoterracide@gmail.com</a>> 4/26/2006 3:20 PM >>> I know that before you study a specific language your supposed to learn logic and design. any recommendations on free resources for learning this? </blockquote></div>