<div dir="ltr"><div>Hello to everyone, and Bert!</div><div><br></div>I just did a couple installs for a friend of Debian 7.0.1 on P4 boxes. One was a general use desktop and the other to be used specifically for digital audio production; he's on a budget.<div>
<br></div><div>My initial installs were with the stock Gnome 3 desktop. I was unable to get it working properly with nouveau or nvidia (proprietary) drivers for his video cards. So, I did a base</div><div>install then built up the system from the command line. I found that the MATE desktop (fork of Gnome 2) even have a repository that can be added to the sources.list config</div>
<div>file for the package manager. Then came the kernel building as, from what I've read, Linus pushed for nouveau drivers to be built into the kernel and folks seem to be having some</div><div>difficulty in "making it go away".</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I built a custom kernel from 3.8 sources with the RT patch for the DAW box. I was very pleased with how well it runs being a P4 3.0Ghz with 1.5 Gig of RAM. He's able to run</div><div>
Ardour, Hydrogen and a software synth with less than 10ms latency and no x-runs. Not too shabby for a budget box.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I've noodled around with many different distros. I started my Linux adventure back in 1999; Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake, Gentoo just to name a few. Friend's used to make fun of me because,</div>
<div>at any given time, I'd have about two dozen different Linux distros burned on disks lying about my desk. I built a few machines usingSlackware; that was an excellent way to "get under the hood"</div><div>
and I learned much with Slack as well as Gentoo. An associate showed me the package management system and kernel build procedures for Debian and I was intrigued. I had already built stuff </div><div>with Slackware, so I felt I had dirtied my hands a bit. But the convenience of kernel building with Debian really was a plus.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Hope my input helps you...</div><div><br></div><div>JN</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Bert W. Carrier Jr. <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bertcarrier@gmail.com" target="_blank">bertcarrier@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
This is a great discussion, thanks to all who contributed. It is
also timely for me because support for my beloved Ubuntu 10.04LTS is
coming to an end, and sooner or later I'll have to switch to
something else. I don't care for Unity and Gnome 3.0 is too
resource-hungry for my P4 2.4ghz machines. Any suggestions?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 07/21/2013 12:54 PM, ebcha1974
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>I really love MIR, I really love Unity and Gnome Shell And
everything Ubuntu related. So whiners get over! </div>
<div>By the way I am just kidding, I am actually running Arch with
LXDE & X11. I just wanted to see how high the flames in this
thread. You know there are no correct answers to this debate. </div>
<div>Have a nice weekend. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:75%;color:#575757">Sent from my T-Mobile
4G LTE Device</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: <a href="mailto:linux-user-request@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">linux-user-request@egr.msu.edu</a> <br>
Date: 07/20/2013 12:00 PM (GMT-05:00) <br>
To: <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">linux-user@egr.msu.edu</a> <br>
Subject: linux-user Digest, Vol 123, Issue 9 <br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Chick Tower)<br>
2. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Matt Parrott)<br>
3. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (bfdamkoehler)<br>
4. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Jonathan
Billings)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:36:57 -0500<br>
From: Chick Tower <a href="mailto:c.e.tower@gmail.com" target="_blank"><c.e.tower@gmail.com></a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">"linux-user@egr.msu.edu"</a> <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank"><linux-user@egr.msu.edu></a><br>
Subject: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User<br>
Message-ID: <a href="mailto:51EA13E9.50804@gmail.com" target="_blank"><51EA13E9.50804@gmail.com></a><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html" target="_blank">http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html</a><br>
-- <br>
<br>
Chick<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:54:19 -0400<br>
From: Matt Parrott <a href="mailto:parrott.matt@gmail.com" target="_blank"><parrott.matt@gmail.com></a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">"linux-user@egr.msu.edu"</a> <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank"><linux-user@egr.msu.edu></a><br>
Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<a href="mailto:CAJqTABUKkx2W1FB7VJCH6RTpr_kWFXSeE+NgAG=utw_ehTSQ3g@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank"><CAJqTABUKkx2W1FB7VJCH6RTpr_kWFXSeE+NgAG=utw_ehTSQ3g@mail.gmail.com></a><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
The bad news is that the open source community has proven itself
utterly<br>
incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core
principles to the<br>
desktop, and has failed spectacularly. The good news is that the
browser<br>
will completely swallow the desktop, which will place Linux in a
tactically<br>
enviable position once again. Linux is going to win despite
decades of<br>
heroic attempts to lose spectacularly at the GUI game.<br>
<br>
When you think about it philosophically, a computer desktop which
is<br>
aligned with Unix principles would be networked, tools-and-pipes
oriented,<br>
and flexible enough to deploy on a variety of operating systems
and<br>
contexts. In other words, the Linux Desktop has been around the
whole time<br>
and has been kicking ass. For historical reasons, the Linux
Desktop is<br>
called a "web browser". A ChromeBook-like experience atop a Linux
engine is<br>
the end game.<br>
<br>
I switched to ChromeBook a year ago and I haven't looked back (the
keyboard<br>
is infinitely superior to the cluttered nightmare you get with Win
boxes,<br>
like Happy Hacker laptop-edition). The community hasn't come
around to<br>
providing the ChromeBook front-end with a local Linux backend,
yet, but I<br>
can remotely access my EC2 box for my programming and sysadmin
work, which<br>
works in my situation.<br>
<br>
For those unwilling to go that far, Lubuntu is a great way to
enjoy<br>
Ubuntu's stable package management without being subjected to
whatever<br>
bloated dead-end mess they're serving up for a GUI of the week.<br>
<br>
- Matt Parrott <a href="http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt" target="_blank"><http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt></a> ? (317)
324-8282 ?<br>
Skype: matt.parrott<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Chick Tower
<a href="mailto:c.e.tower@gmail.com" target="_blank"><c.e.tower@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?<br>
><br>
>
<a href="http://www.everydaylinuxuser.**com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.**html" target="_blank">http://www.everydaylinuxuser.**com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.**html</a><a href="http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html" target="_blank"><http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html></a><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Chick<br>
> ______________________________**_________________<br>
> linux-user mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">linux-user@egr.msu.edu</a><br>
>
<a href="http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/**mailman/listinfo/linux-user" target="_blank">http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/**mailman/listinfo/linux-user</a><a href="http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user" target="_blank"><http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user></a><br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:59:39 -0400<br>
From: bfdamkoehler <a href="mailto:bfdamkoehler@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank"><bfdamkoehler@sbcglobal.net></a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">linux-user@egr.msu.edu</a><br>
Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User<br>
Message-ID: <a href="mailto:51EAA5DB.50002@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank"><51EAA5DB.50002@sbcglobal.net></a><br>
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<br>
<br>
Another way of looking at it is that when Linux started its goal
was <br>
100% alignment with the established "real" Unix base. Now that it
has <br>
become a stronger force than "real" Unix, it is starting to shed
some of <br>
the long time inefficiencies of Unix. X Windows has always had
issues. <br>
We are now seeing a programming force around planet trying to come
up <br>
with something better. Like anything open source in nature, there
are a <br>
few contenders out there (Mir, Wayland). Time will show what
happens...<br>
<br>
If you don't like Mir, there are plenty of other distros out there
this <br>
still offer X Windows.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 07/20/2013 08:54 AM, Matt Parrott wrote:<br>
> The bad news is that the open source community has proven
itself <br>
> utterly incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its
core <br>
> principles to the desktop, and has failed spectacularly. The
good news <br>
> is that the browser will completely swallow the desktop,
which will <br>
> place Linux in a tactically enviable position once again.
Linux is <br>
> going to win despite decades of heroic attempts to lose
spectacularly <br>
> at the GUI game.<br>
><br>
> When you think about it philosophically, a computer desktop
which is <br>
> aligned with Unix principles would be networked,
tools-and-pipes <br>
> oriented, and flexible enough to deploy on a variety of
operating <br>
> systems and contexts. In other words, the Linux Desktop has
been <br>
> around the whole time and has been kicking ass. For
historical <br>
> reasons, the Linux Desktop is called a "web browser". A <br>
> ChromeBook-like experience atop a Linux engine is the end
game.<br>
><br>
> I switched to ChromeBook a year ago and I haven't looked back
(the <br>
> keyboard is infinitely superior to the cluttered nightmare
you get <br>
> with Win boxes, like Happy Hacker laptop-edition). The
community <br>
> hasn't come around to providing the ChromeBook front-end with
a local <br>
> Linux backend, yet, but I can remotely access my EC2 box for
my <br>
> programming and sysadmin work, which works in my situation.<br>
><br>
> For those unwilling to go that far, Lubuntu is a great way to
enjoy <br>
> Ubuntu's stable package management without being subjected to
whatever <br>
> bloated dead-end mess they're serving up for a GUI of the
week.<br>
><br>
> - Matt Parrott <a href="http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt" target="_blank"><http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt></a> ?
(317) <br>
> 324-8282 ? Skype: matt.parrott<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Chick Tower
<<a href="mailto:c.e.tower@gmail.com" target="_blank">c.e.tower@gmail.com</a> <br>
> <a href="mailto:c.e.tower@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:c.e.tower@gmail.com></a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?<br>
><br>
>
<a href="http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html" target="_blank">http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html</a><br>
> -- <br>
><br>
> Chick<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> linux-user mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">linux-user@egr.msu.edu</a>
<a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank"><mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu></a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user" target="_blank">http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> linux-user mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">linux-user@egr.msu.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user" target="_blank">http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user</a><br>
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<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:13:17 -0400<br>
From: Jonathan Billings <a href="mailto:billings@negate.org" target="_blank"><billings@negate.org></a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:linux-user@egr.msu.edu" target="_blank">linux-user@egr.msu.edu</a><br>
Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User<br>
Message-ID: <a href="mailto:20130720151317.GB12960@negate.org" target="_blank"><20130720151317.GB12960@negate.org></a><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
On Sweetmorn, the 55th of Confusion, 3179 , Matt Parrott said:<br>
> The bad news is that the open source community has proven
itself utterly<br>
> incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core
principles to the<br>
> desktop, and has failed spectacularly. <br>
<br>
Those are pretty bold premises, I assume you have evidence? As
far as<br>
I can tell, Linux suffers from an abundance of creativity when it<br>
comes to adapting to the desktop, which is the whole reason why
the<br>
Mir situation is so frustrating -- how can desktop environment<br>
developers expect to build a platform when the underpinnings are
going<br>
in two (or more, if you count X) simultaneous directions?<br>
<br>
> The good news is that the browser<br>
> will completely swallow the desktop, which will place Linux
in a tactically<br>
> enviable position once again. Linux is going to win despite
decades of<br>
> heroic attempts to lose spectacularly at the GUI game.<br>
<br>
That is a particularly limited view of what Linux users use the<br>
Desktop to do. Perhaps your use cases are fine, but I doubt your<br>
claim covers all use.<br>
<br>
Perhaps you can get away with using a browser and an SSH client to
do<br>
your job, but there are so many different uses of a Desktop system<br>
that currently do not work in a Browser, nor does it make sense to<br>
turn them into a web page. For example, much of the Scientific
and<br>
Engineering software I support use extremely complicated
interfaces<br>
and their own windowing toolkits, on both Windows and Linux. I
see<br>
little incentive for these companies to turn them into
browser-based<br>
applications.<br>
<br>
Anyway, as you end up buiding more and more complicated
browser-based<br>
desktop environments, you're going to end up back at square one,
where<br>
you've got a bunch of implementations that don't 100% work
together,<br>
and you end up having to pick and choose which you can use. Have
you<br>
ever tried to make a complicated web site work in both IE and
Firefox?<br>
On top of that, IE works best with Microsoft's clouds, and Chrome<br>
works best with Google's cloud, and each company has an agenda to
get<br>
you to use their browser. This leads to worse cross-browser
support,<br>
and not better.<br>
<br>
On top of that, most of these browser-based desktops are NOT EVEN
OPEN<br>
SOURCE. Sure, parts of the Chromebook's OS are based on source
that's<br>
open, but to get it to work, you have to rely on Google's<br>
infrastructure, which is closed. Google Chrome itself has parts
that<br>
aren't open. <br>
<br>
By pushing into closed clouds like Google, you're actually moving
away<br>
from the Open Source community. I like Google, and I don't think
that<br>
they're out to get us, but they have their own financial interests
at<br>
heart, which doesn't necessarily overlap with the best interests
of<br>
Linux users. <br>
<br>
Lastly, I have a bone to pick with Google. They dropped Chrome<br>
support for Red Hat Enterprise Linux and all the distros based off
of<br>
RHEL (CentOS, Scientific Linux, PU_IAS, etc.). So, it's pretty
clear<br>
they have no interest in supporting Enterprise customers. This
leads<br>
me to believe that Google really only is interested in supporting<br>
their browsers on 1.) Their own OS 2.) Windows (They support
Chrome on<br>
XP and MacOSX 10.6) and 3.) Non-enterprise linux users willing to<br>
always run cutting-edge OSs. <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Jonathan Billings <a href="mailto:billings@negate.org" target="_blank"><billings@negate.org></a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
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End of linux-user Digest, Vol 123, Issue 9<br>
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