[GLLUG] Zope developers

Dave Rogers DaveRogers@stockalerts.com
Mon, 14 Apr 2003 02:41:43 -0400


Hi Alex,

Just mentioning Zope makes me eager to comment (and cringe).  I've been an avid Python developer for 3 years now.  With that experience I approached Zope with great hope.  I was even assigned a Zope project by the consulting firm I used to work for.

Anyway, this page is a little dated, but still a good read: http://zope-is-evil-666.idyll.org/ and this page is a more up-to-date read that covers a more recent version: http://www.amk.ca/python/writing/why-not-zope.html

So where I'm going with this is that my best advice to you is to consider alternatives like Webware (http://webware.sf.net).  Its similar to Zope in that its Open Source, cross platform and written in Python.  However, it provides the full power of the python language coupled with session management, request and response objects, incredible error reporting and a nice set of examples.  Its servlet or server page based, similar to Java servlets, jsp, or asp.  It also comes with an object to relational db mapper which is very powerful and easy to use.  It has some other things such as a form manager and others that I haven't yet mastered.

Zope felt to me like some alternate reality where everything was "wrong".  Things like programmable brains made me want to beat the authors of such things with a very big stick.  As I worked on the zope project in more of a managerial role (since I learned enough to not tolerate Zope) I saw developers mastering the freakiness where if their code was not syntactically correct it would be completely erased.  They had a habit of copying all their text in a buffer before submitting it to Zope itself.  That's just one example of the bad dev framework they worked with.  Also, the creation of yet another mini-language in DTML is yet another mini-language that has its own dead ends.

The only people who I found that had good things to say about Zope were professors in fields at least a couple steps away from computer science.  Professors in biology or mathematics.  People who really didn't know enough about software development or web development to understand that the world they were in wasn't quite right.

Well, I didn't mean to rant but I feel Zope tries to garner kudos from its python heritage.  People expect it to be a great tool since Python is such a great language, but IMO it really falls short.

I hope that helps...

If you are interested in Webware, I wouldn't mind giving you some tips if you need help getting it setup.

Good luck,

Alex Nelson wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> As long time lurker and occasional poster, I have my own set of
> questions to pose to the list: Have any of you used Zope for a medium to
> large scale web application?  What pros/cons/gotcha's would you advise
> someone to look out for? And finally, how many of you have real
> experience with Zope development? (Production class, business work to be
> specific.) Any feedback or comments you can provide would be greatly
> appreciated. Feel free to add any additional info you think might be
> usefull. Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> --
> Alex Nelson
> ANSoft Computing
> www.ansoftcomputing.com
> "We make systems work!"
>
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