[GLLUG] Fw: [mdlug] OO.org in Mi schools

Tue May 15 15:04:32 EDT 2007

As a student at DeWitt High School, I have really welcomed this
change. Our technology supervisor, Sherry McVay, asked me to write a
letter to help promote OOo to the school board, and other people who
couldn't be convinced that something with no cost can be something of
quality.

I think Mike's mention of curriculum is probably the most prominent
within the things that were deterring school faculty from making the
switch. At DeWitt we have a linux LTSP lab, and as a result most
teachers have used OOo in the past, at least enough to see the
similarity between it and Word (within the Writer component). As I was
informed, it seems that the greatest amount of opposition to the
change came from teachers who already had classes where Microsoft
products were core curriculum (ie typing, accounting, Business Tech)
because (my evaluation) they did not want to either learn the new
software, or update their already generated worksheets/lesson plans to
reflect changes within the interface and functionality.

I think the largest hurtle for students will be changing margins,
spacing, etc. It has come to my attention that (as Clay might have
inferred, through workers doing specific tasks well) students don't
really read through dialogues and interpret the information; rather,
they have learned (and perhaps have muscle memory) where they can go
for specific options without reading, and they do it automatically.
When students occupy the linux lab, despite the somewhat obvious or
logical menus, (Applications>Office>Writer) students have a difficulty
finding the application they need to use.

While I think this change does pose some issues, it should also be
noted that at DeWitt High School (and through my experience K-12
through the DeWitt school system) nearly everyone is not a 'power
user'; I think it is a stretch to say that the teachers of typing and
applications-based classes know little more than what their curriculum
instructs. I think the adoption of OOo will be more welcomed by
students than they will openly recognize; I remember as a 7th or 8th
grade student having difficulties because I needed to complete a
powerpoint assignment, but was unable to afford the cost of the Office
Suite for my computer (and unable to pirate it). Had OOo been around
then I would have been much better off, but making OOo standard
removes any issues with compatibility.

While training might seem like it would be more expensive, I think it
should be noted that the training is probably going to be done by the
technology administration itself along with other technology-oriented
staff members. Training at large won't be extremely prevalent; it has
been my experience that these technologies are underutilized by
students and staff, so fundamentals learned from Word will transfer
over along with some sort of instruction for migration. The number of
people requiring in depth training shouldn't be all that significant,
as DeWitt has a small technology track.

"
A few of us are - have for years. Hasn't made a difference. Most folks
just want to get work done with least effort. As long as there is money
to buy it - it'll be bought.
"

I agree with the previous statement, but the thing is that the school
budget for 2007 has just been cut very significantly, and since the
school year operates on a different schedule than the state and
federal governments, the pool of money that is being cut has already
been spent on little things like faculty salaries. The money to buy
things like this is quickly drying up, at least in the immediate
sense.

Perhaps Joe Smith (on the GLLUG list, and a member of DeWitt Public
School's technology dept.) has something else to say, or can correct
me on any of my points.

Just my .02

Karl

On 5/15/07, Mike Rambo <mrambo at lsd.k12.mi.us> wrote:
> Lachniet, Mark wrote:
> > I'm sure Mike Rambo could comment on that but....  One thing I will say
> > is that schools get that Microsoft software at a steep discount.   When
> > looking at the overall cost of conversion (training teachers, in
> > particular) it may not be the best value proposition.  For "grunts" (non
> > information workers) who work in companies paying full price, the
> > argument for OO is much more compelling..
> >
> > Mark Lachniet
> > Analysts International
> > (517) 336-1004 (voice)
> > (517) 648-7903 (cell)
> > mailto: mlachniet at analysts.com
> >
>
> (sorry - this is a bit long)
>
> FWIW,
>
> I saw the lsj article this morning. Even forwarded it to my supervisor.
>
> I've used OO exclusively at work (on a Linux desktop) and at home (on
> windows and linux) for years - since it was Star Office at least on the
> windows side.
>
> For LSD, Open Office is on every image we deploy. Even new computers
> that we buy are shipped with one of our images and thus come with OO.
> It's pretty safe to say OO is on >95% of the (windows os) computers LSD
> owns. Departments and buildings which then want MS Office are, for the
> most part, required to spend their own building or department funds to
> get it.
>
> Most do. At ~$50 a copy they can't see why not (while not stopping to
> think of how much $50 times thousands of computers adds up to when
> everybody does it).
>
> I don't really know what OO usage has been but if we have even 5% of the
> users of those 95+% of computers with OO that actually use it I'd be
> surprised - or that would be my guess anyway. In spite of it's slowness
> and bloated feel OO does everything the *vast* majority of our users
> would ever need - but almost nobody wants to use it.
>
> Must be something in the water.
>
> That said... there are apparently some genuine operational issues for
> certain power users. My supervisor is generally quite OSS friendly. The
> majority of our infrastructure is Linux. He has used OO extensively at
> times. He generally ends up back with MS Office simply because it makes
> some things he needs to do easier - or prettier. He'd have to identify
> what (and might since last I knew he watches this list). I'm told our
> accounting dept has some excel macros which don't work right on OO too.
> They'd have to identify what :-).
>
> I guess one other possible show stopper could be curriculum. I haven't
> seen it myself as that isn't what I deal with but I'm told that most
> curriculum doesn't teach how to use a word processor but rather teaches
> how to use Word. How true that is I don't know. I *do* know that my son
> was once in a class where the instructor insisted MS Word was the only
> way to successfully do the class. That was before OOo existed.
> Staroffice was too cumbersome at the time so I had my son use (the AFAIK
> now defunct) 602 software's free writer for the class. That instructor
> to this day believes he won that debate - me and my son know better. But
> there is a lot of that. People that don't know better just believe the
> FUD and live happy.
>
> My son is going to Kettering University now and has been looking for a
> job to fulfill the coop part of the experience. The potential employers
> which have asked have wanted to know about Word and Excel experience,
> not word processor and spreadsheet abilities. Right or wrong it makes
> the curriculum vendors look like they're doing just what they need to do.
>
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* linux-user-bounces at egr.msu.edu on behalf of Mark Szidik/mlc
> > *Sent:* Tue 5/15/2007 9:47 AM
> > *To:* linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> > *Subject:* [GLLUG] Fw: [mdlug] OO.org in Mi schools
> >
> >
> > Cool article below from a Superintendent that is starting to "get it".
> >  I wonder if the Lansing School District is listening?
> >
>
> A few of us are - have for years. Hasn't made a difference. Most folks
> just want to get work done with least effort. As long as there is money
> to buy it - it'll be bought.
>
> >
> > ---
> > Mark Szidik, CIO
> >
> >
> > http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070513/DEWITTBATH02/705130419/1006/news05
>
> --
> Mike Rambo
> mrambo AT lsd.k12.mi.us
>
> Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when
> your position falls, your ego goes with it.
>      -Colin Powell
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