[GLLUG] Fw: Re: Raspberry Pi has a competitor?

Sat Jan 21 20:29:54 EST 2012

No matter the case, it's good to see what the future holds.

It's easy to tell that the RPI is going to be an instant success and that there will be generations of similar devices to come.

Also, XBMC running on the RPI. Pretty sweet.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/571

----- Original Message -----
From: Rocky Lichen <rockylichen at yahoo.com>
To: Bryan Laur <bjlaur at mtu.edu>
Cc: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
Sent: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:25:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Fw: Re: Raspberry Pi has a competitor?

My understanding is that what Rhombus-Tech plans to sell (at $15 if they get 100,000 orders) is their $7 A10 cpu/gpu on an EOMA-68 board.  See http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/
and
http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/orders/

This product does include HDMI, but, like the Raspberry Pi, does not include a case and is powered via USB.

I don't mean to promote one over the other, but to suggest that both will likely be comparable on price and performance.  Similarly, if your use case is to turn one of these into something standalone useful like CuBox or the *Plugs, you could spend much of the price difference on case, power, etc.

RPI's charitable goals are certainly laudable.  Likewise, many (especially LUG-ers) will find supporting a HW manufacturer who has made a commitment to an FSF/GPL-accredited level of freedom a comparably worthy consideration. 

--- On Wed, 1/18/12, Bryan Laur <bjlaur at mtu.edu> wrote:

> From: Bryan Laur <bjlaur at mtu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Fw: Re: Raspberry Pi has a competitor?
> To: "Bryan Laur" <bjlaur at mtu.edu>
> Cc: linux-user at egr.msu.edu, "Rocky Lichen" <rockylichen at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 3:04 PM
> Another thing I just knew, but never
> fully realized:
> http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular_Architecture/EOMA-68
> 
> This is really a different use-case than the RPI.
> It's not a direct competitor. You can't just plug it in
> (standalone) and use it like you can an RPI.
> And any breakout board w/ connectors is likely to cost $10+
> itself. Especially if it includes HDMI.
> 
> a) the PCMCIA case brings down the price significantly. No
> through-holes, no connectors. 
> b) no HDMI. HDMI has to bring the price per chip up.
> 
> If neither of these matter to you, then the EOMA-68 might
> actually be better for your use-case.
> For one, It does have some sort of LCD pinout, (no nasty
> LVDS or HDMI to deal with).
> 
> 
> Hopefully it's optimized for portable use. Considering it's
> formfactor, this could work quite well for a music device.
> Hrmmm
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bryan Laur <bjlaur at mtu.edu>
> To: Charles Ulrich <charles at bityard.net>
> Cc: Rocky Lichen <rockylichen at yahoo.com>,
> linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:52:31 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Fw: Re: Raspberry Pi has a competitor?
> 
> There a few things about the price point you folks may have
> missed.
> 
> "Thanks to the low cost of the Allwinner Cortex A8,
> mass-volume pricing ****(just for the CPU card, and
> therefore excluding tax, shipping, profit, a case and a
> power supply)**** looks to be on target for around $15: 40%
> lower than the raspberrypi which is only a 700mhz ARM11 and
> is therefore at least three times slower in processor speed
> than the Allwinner A10."
> 
> 1) Notice that the $25 price point for the RPI -includes-
> profit (or "donation"). (charities still need to make profit
> to fund future table events/ventures). 
> 
> The $15 price point from rhombus-tech includes no profit.
> They aren't comparable figures.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/orders/
> The mass-volume (100k units) price will be somewhere around
> $15: the more committments received, the closer the price
> will get to that. One expression of interest has been
> received for 1,000 (stable) units: a pricing evaluation
> request is outstanding with the factory and will be reported
> as soon as it is received.
> 
> 
> 2) As a charity, RPI has enough equity to do batch sizes of
> 10,000 units or so (I can't remember the exact figure, and
> the site is down for SOPA as previously mentioned).
> 
> In order to get $15 price, rhombus-tech will need to do
> 100,000 units.
> (A) This is obviously not going to be the introduction
> cost.
> (B) This is till not including any profit. The risk of
> spending $1.5mil likely requires profit.
> 
> 3) They aren't a charity. 
> 
> Conclusion: This device will never sell at $15. It probably
> will never sell at $25.
> 
> 
> Lastly, they aren't nearly as far along as RPI is.
> 
> 
> Answers to other questions-
> "So it's just a convenient peripheral connector or will you
> have to
> plug it into something else to make full use of it? That's
> what I'm
> unclear on."
> 
> Yes, it's just a casing that is currently already
> mass-produced. It has nothing to do with PCMCIA. You might
> need a PCMCIA header to interface with it, but thats it.
> 
> 
> "I _thought_ the raspberry pi would be open hardware
> (schematics, parts
> list, board layout), but I can't verify since their site is
> blacked
> out for SOPA day and google isn't helping right now. "
> AFAIK, the openness of their hardware is rather uncertain.
> We will never get a datasheet from Broadcom for the chip.
> Though, I think Gurt was working on a "high-level"
> datasheet. Whether they plan on releasing Gerbers or
> schematics is yet to be seen.
> 
> If they do, they won't be significantly useful because
> hobbyists will likely never get their hands on the chip.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charles Ulrich <charles at bityard.net>
> To: Rocky Lichen <rockylichen at yahoo.com>
> Cc: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Sent: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 17:11:48 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Fw: Re: Raspberry Pi has a competitor?
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 3:19 PM, Rocky Lichen <rockylichen at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > According to http://rhombus-tech.net/faq/#index11h2
> > "Satellite TV 'Conditional Access Modules' are in
> PCMCIA form-factor, meaning that the connectors, housings
> and assemblies are all still mass-produced" and "the pricing
> on parts is still good in mass-volume quantities."
> 
> So it's just a convenient peripheral connector or will you
> have to
> plug it into something else to make full use of it? That's
> what I'm
> unclear on.
> 
> > Note that the Rhombus-Tech Allwinner is just about the
> same size as the Raspberry Pi.
> >
> > According to http://opensource.com/life/12/1/linux-hardware-race-tiniest-and-cheapest-15-cheap
> > the Allwinner is GPL-compliant open hardware, while
> Raspberry Pi has yet to make a decision on HW openness.
> 
> GPL compliant, yes, but the physical design won't be open
> hardware.
> The FAQ states that they're contracting with a firm in China
> to
> develop the board, so it won't be open hardware in the
> Arduino sense.
> 
> I _thought_ the raspberry pi would be open hardware
> (schematics, parts
> list, board layout), but I can't verify since their site is
> blacked
> out for SOPA day and google isn't helping right now. The
> RaspPI will
> have at least one binary firmware blob, I believe for the
> GPU.
> 
> > As for how they can do it cheaper, prices are falling
> so rapidly in the smartphone-ish device space that if you
> start later and develop faster . . .
> 
> I've seen too many hardware projects that promised a very
> attractive
> price for the end unit, but then after the prototypes are
> built, the
> cold reality of mass manufacture, transportation, taxes,
> distribution,
> and other costs sets in.
> 
> > The second link above also discusses the CuBox, which
> is already shipping.  It costs a whopping $129, but
> includes case, p/s, ethernet, eSATA, Ubuntu on microSD,
> etc., in a 2" cube.
> 
> That's ridiculously tiny! But personally, I'm more
> interested in cheap
> and power-efficient than small.
> 
> Charles
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