[GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu
Troy
w8tcc at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 21 14:06:00 EDT 2013
It is amazing just how much I don't know about Linux... But I do know one thing, for sure: I tend to hate Windows!!!
73 de w8tcc, Troy
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 21, 2013, at 12:54 PM, ebcha1974 <ebcha1974 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I really love MIR, I really love Unity and Gnome Shell And everything Ubuntu related. So whiners get over!
> By the way I am just kidding, I am actually running Arch with LXDE & X11. I just wanted to see how high the flames in this thread. You know there are no correct answers to this debate.
> Have a nice weekend.
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: linux-user-request at egr.msu.edu
> Date: 07/20/2013 12:00 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Subject: linux-user Digest, Vol 123, Issue 9
>
>
> Send linux-user mailing list submissions to
> linux-user at egr.msu.edu
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> linux-user-request at egr.msu.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> linux-user-owner at egr.msu.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of linux-user digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Chick Tower)
> 2. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Matt Parrott)
> 3. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (bfdamkoehler)
> 4. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Jonathan Billings)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:36:57 -0500
> From: Chick Tower <c.e.tower at gmail.com>
> To: "linux-user at egr.msu.edu" <linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> Subject: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID: <51EA13E9.50804 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?
>
> http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html
> --
>
> Chick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:54:19 -0400
> From: Matt Parrott <parrott.matt at gmail.com>
> To: "linux-user at egr.msu.edu" <linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID:
> <CAJqTABUKkx2W1FB7VJCH6RTpr_kWFXSeE+NgAG=utw_ehTSQ3g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The bad news is that the open source community has proven itself utterly
> incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core principles to the
> desktop, and has failed spectacularly. The good news is that the browser
> will completely swallow the desktop, which will place Linux in a tactically
> enviable position once again. Linux is going to win despite decades of
> heroic attempts to lose spectacularly at the GUI game.
>
> When you think about it philosophically, a computer desktop which is
> aligned with Unix principles would be networked, tools-and-pipes oriented,
> and flexible enough to deploy on a variety of operating systems and
> contexts. In other words, the Linux Desktop has been around the whole time
> and has been kicking ass. For historical reasons, the Linux Desktop is
> called a "web browser". A ChromeBook-like experience atop a Linux engine is
> the end game.
>
> I switched to ChromeBook a year ago and I haven't looked back (the keyboard
> is infinitely superior to the cluttered nightmare you get with Win boxes,
> like Happy Hacker laptop-edition). The community hasn't come around to
> providing the ChromeBook front-end with a local Linux backend, yet, but I
> can remotely access my EC2 box for my programming and sysadmin work, which
> works in my situation.
>
> For those unwilling to go that far, Lubuntu is a great way to enjoy
> Ubuntu's stable package management without being subjected to whatever
> bloated dead-end mess they're serving up for a GUI of the week.
>
> - Matt Parrott <http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt> ? (317) 324-8282 ?
> Skype: matt.parrott
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Chick Tower <c.e.tower at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?
> >
> > http://www.everydaylinuxuser.**com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.**html<http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html>
> > --
> >
> > Chick
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > linux-user mailing list
> > linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> > http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/**mailman/listinfo/linux-user<http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user>
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/public/linux-user/attachments/20130720/6476e2d5/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:59:39 -0400
> From: bfdamkoehler <bfdamkoehler at sbcglobal.net>
> To: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID: <51EAA5DB.50002 at sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
>
> Another way of looking at it is that when Linux started its goal was
> 100% alignment with the established "real" Unix base. Now that it has
> become a stronger force than "real" Unix, it is starting to shed some of
> the long time inefficiencies of Unix. X Windows has always had issues.
> We are now seeing a programming force around planet trying to come up
> with something better. Like anything open source in nature, there are a
> few contenders out there (Mir, Wayland). Time will show what happens...
>
> If you don't like Mir, there are plenty of other distros out there this
> still offer X Windows.
>
>
> On 07/20/2013 08:54 AM, Matt Parrott wrote:
> > The bad news is that the open source community has proven itself
> > utterly incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core
> > principles to the desktop, and has failed spectacularly. The good news
> > is that the browser will completely swallow the desktop, which will
> > place Linux in a tactically enviable position once again. Linux is
> > going to win despite decades of heroic attempts to lose spectacularly
> > at the GUI game.
> >
> > When you think about it philosophically, a computer desktop which is
> > aligned with Unix principles would be networked, tools-and-pipes
> > oriented, and flexible enough to deploy on a variety of operating
> > systems and contexts. In other words, the Linux Desktop has been
> > around the whole time and has been kicking ass. For historical
> > reasons, the Linux Desktop is called a "web browser". A
> > ChromeBook-like experience atop a Linux engine is the end game.
> >
> > I switched to ChromeBook a year ago and I haven't looked back (the
> > keyboard is infinitely superior to the cluttered nightmare you get
> > with Win boxes, like Happy Hacker laptop-edition). The community
> > hasn't come around to providing the ChromeBook front-end with a local
> > Linux backend, yet, but I can remotely access my EC2 box for my
> > programming and sysadmin work, which works in my situation.
> >
> > For those unwilling to go that far, Lubuntu is a great way to enjoy
> > Ubuntu's stable package management without being subjected to whatever
> > bloated dead-end mess they're serving up for a GUI of the week.
> >
> > - Matt Parrott <http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt> ? (317)
> > 324-8282 ? Skype: matt.parrott
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Chick Tower <c.e.tower at gmail.com
> > <mailto:c.e.tower at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?
> >
> > http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html
> > --
> >
> > Chick
> > _______________________________________________
> > linux-user mailing list
> > linux-user at egr.msu.edu <mailto:linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> > http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > linux-user mailing list
> > linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> > http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/public/linux-user/attachments/20130720/a1d098a0/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:13:17 -0400
> From: Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
> To: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID: <20130720151317.GB12960 at negate.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Sweetmorn, the 55th of Confusion, 3179 , Matt Parrott said:
> > The bad news is that the open source community has proven itself utterly
> > incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core principles to the
> > desktop, and has failed spectacularly.
>
> Those are pretty bold premises, I assume you have evidence? As far as
> I can tell, Linux suffers from an abundance of creativity when it
> comes to adapting to the desktop, which is the whole reason why the
> Mir situation is so frustrating -- how can desktop environment
> developers expect to build a platform when the underpinnings are going
> in two (or more, if you count X) simultaneous directions?
>
> > The good news is that the browser
> > will completely swallow the desktop, which will place Linux in a tactically
> > enviable position once again. Linux is going to win despite decades of
> > heroic attempts to lose spectacularly at the GUI game.
>
> That is a particularly limited view of what Linux users use the
> Desktop to do. Perhaps your use cases are fine, but I doubt your
> claim covers all use.
>
> Perhaps you can get away with using a browser and an SSH client to do
> your job, but there are so many different uses of a Desktop system
> that currently do not work in a Browser, nor does it make sense to
> turn them into a web page. For example, much of the Scientific and
> Engineering software I support use extremely complicated interfaces
> and their own windowing toolkits, on both Windows and Linux. I see
> little incentive for these companies to turn them into browser-based
> applications.
>
> Anyway, as you end up buiding more and more complicated browser-based
> desktop environments, you're going to end up back at square one, where
> you've got a bunch of implementations that don't 100% work together,
> and you end up having to pick and choose which you can use. Have you
> ever tried to make a complicated web site work in both IE and Firefox?
> On top of that, IE works best with Microsoft's clouds, and Chrome
> works best with Google's cloud, and each company has an agenda to get
> you to use their browser. This leads to worse cross-browser support,
> and not better.
>
> On top of that, most of these browser-based desktops are NOT EVEN OPEN
> SOURCE. Sure, parts of the Chromebook's OS are based on source that's
> open, but to get it to work, you have to rely on Google's
> infrastructure, which is closed. Google Chrome itself has parts that
> aren't open.
>
> By pushing into closed clouds like Google, you're actually moving away
> from the Open Source community. I like Google, and I don't think that
> they're out to get us, but they have their own financial interests at
> heart, which doesn't necessarily overlap with the best interests of
> Linux users.
>
> Lastly, I have a bone to pick with Google. They dropped Chrome
> support for Red Hat Enterprise Linux and all the distros based off of
> RHEL (CentOS, Scientific Linux, PU_IAS, etc.). So, it's pretty clear
> they have no interest in supporting Enterprise customers. This leads
> me to believe that Google really only is interested in supporting
> their browsers on 1.) Their own OS 2.) Windows (They support Chrome on
> XP and MacOSX 10.6) and 3.) Non-enterprise linux users willing to
> always run cutting-edge OSs.
>
> --
> Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> linux-user mailing list
> linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user
>
>
> End of linux-user Digest, Vol 123, Issue 9
> ******************************************
> _______________________________________________
> linux-user mailing list
> linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/public/linux-user/attachments/20130721/ded78f43/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the linux-user
mailing list