compression

[Edward Glowacki]

I need a break from banging my head against a wall trying to get
software to compile, so I'll respond to this... =)

Quoted from Marcel Kunath on Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 10:46:44AM -0400:
> I know you all read /. but I post it anyways:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/patchnpuki/other/compression.htm

Without following the URL, I'm guessing that's the big thing
about the guy trying to compress the file and win $5000...

> I don't know about Computer Science and myself. Most CSE classes at MSU bore
> the hell out of me (e.g. CSE 830). Exceptions were 230, Software Engineering,
> Networks, Operating Systems.

Of those classes you mentioned that are interesting, with the
exception of CSE 230, they are all 400 level classes:
Software Engineering (CSE 470), Networks (CSE 422), and Operating
Systems (CSE 410)

Of course 400 level classes are going to be more interesting and
challenging than lowel level classes, and of course the lower level
classes are going to be boring because it's largely background
information that you use in later classes to actually do useful
stuff.

> But then I come upon discussions like the one above and I am enormously stunned
> by the subject matter. What makes it especially interesting to me is the matter
> that human communication failed in this instance and the level of detail needed
> to discuss intense scientific subject matter.

The challenge was very poorly worded.  The failure in communication
wasn't really in the technical level relating to file compression,
but in a more general level, i.e. making what you say equal what
you *wanted* to say.  Had I been issuing the challenge, I would
have more explicitely declared the terms of success, and most
definately included a link to the compression FAQ.

> I was staying away earlier from discussions of "is a degree worth more than a
> certification" and I favor certification and practical knowledge application
> more than a degree simply because I get bored in theory discussions, which to
> me seem to lead nowhere. I need to see definite results to be satisfied. But I
> feel highly interested reading a practical problem like the one above and
> legalese as in the deCSS case.

It's important to know implementations, practical answers, and
established ways of doing things.  It's also important to know
theory.  But it's most important to know where the boundry lies
between the two...

> Having been at MSU I learned there is bad classes (PHY 183/4), good classes
> (CSE 230) and great classes (EC 425). It makes one realize what your interests
> are and what you are good at and not good at. I personally don't favor degrees
> because they are research oriented and I guess I lack the drive or motivation
> to do research or abilities to do research. I still feel I got abilities to
> discuss technical and computer science subject matter but my shortcomings
> prevent me from achieving good results in a research environment. I feel
> more comfortable with practical applications. I never have done any

Interesting paragraph here.  But I'd argue that degrees are very important.
Let me rephrase that, formal training and theory are important, a
degree is just a piece of paper that says you ran through some
program at a college somewhere.

Going back to my previous statement about theory, practice, and
the boundry between them: CSE 410 (Operating Systems) is a very
good illustration of what I'm talking about.  You learn theory
about filesystems (fragmentation, how they can be organized, etc.),
then you learn specifically about Linux ext2fs.  You could probably
understand ext2fs without the theory, but the theory adds so much
depth to the topic, and you begin to understand why they made the
choices they did, and what the consequences of those choices are.
You can take your theory, and your knowledge of ext2fs, and apply
them to understanding other existing filesystems, or to create your
own.  It reminds me of the quote, "Give a man a fish and he'll eat
for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his
life."

Personally, from the theory I've learned in CSE classes and the
practical applications of those theories, I'm fairly confident that
I can understand how just about any computer works even if it's
implementation is completely different from what I've seen before.

> I feel the entire time spent at MSU I learned about Linux, networking,
> TCP/IP and so forth and just did MSU classes on the side because I
> wasn't really interested as I saw no practical need for it. I learned to work
> in a highly burocractic business/info tech environment (MSU-AIS) where CSE
> knowledge wasn't really needed either because it is focused on mainframe and
> web development excluding any C or Java use.

OK, so basic HTML doesn't really need much CSE, but just about
anything else web-related does: ASP, PHP, CF, JAVA, etc. .  Plus
there's a lot of little things that it really helps to know, stuff
you don't even think about but that's in the back of your mind
anyways.

> This is not the first time I thought about this but something that evolved over
> the past 3.5 years and I think MSU lacks a Information Technology program for
> people like me. Or some program which combines Computer Science with business
> or law. I don't see the Comm Dept coming close. I know I could have chosen a
> different school.

MSU lacks a lot of programs, but so does any school.  Even within
programs it has, there are always things missing.  Which is why
when you're at college, you need to study the things that *aren't*
in the books.  Find something you're interested in, read about it,
learn about it, apply it to your classes.  It sounds like you've
done some of this, but there are a lot of people that I don't think
have.  And as always, there's a difference between knowing material
for an exam and *knowing* material.  College is about passing exams
and getting good grades.  I'm not a 4.0 student, far from it, but
I'd put myself up against one any day when it comes down to actually
understanding computers.

> This wasn't to diss MSU curriculum. I don't consider my studies as a waste.
> Quite the oppsite actually because I learned what I do not want to do in my
> life. =) It just took me too long to realize haha I just had this bunched up
> inside me and felt it needed to be said.
> 
> sorry it was my time to ramble.....
> 
> 
>   -- Marcel Kunath

My time to ramble too... =)

-- 
Edward Glowacki				glowack2@msu.edu
GLLUG Peon  				http://www.gllug.org
Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality.
                -- Jules de Gaultier