[GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu
J Neveau
neveauj at gmail.com
Wed Jul 24 20:19:01 EDT 2013
Hello to everyone, and Bert!
I just did a couple installs for a friend of Debian 7.0.1 on P4 boxes. One
was a general use desktop and the other to be used specifically for digital
audio production; he's on a budget.
My initial installs were with the stock Gnome 3 desktop. I was unable to
get it working properly with nouveau or nvidia (proprietary) drivers for
his video cards. So, I did a base
install then built up the system from the command line. I found that the
MATE desktop (fork of Gnome 2) even have a repository that can be added to
the sources.list config
file for the package manager. Then came the kernel building as, from what
I've read, Linus pushed for nouveau drivers to be built into the kernel and
folks seem to be having some
difficulty in "making it go away".
I built a custom kernel from 3.8 sources with the RT patch for the DAW box.
I was very pleased with how well it runs being a P4 3.0Ghz with 1.5 Gig of
RAM. He's able to run
Ardour, Hydrogen and a software synth with less than 10ms latency and no
x-runs. Not too shabby for a budget box.
I've noodled around with many different distros. I started my Linux
adventure back in 1999; Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake, Gentoo just to name a few.
Friend's used to make fun of me because,
at any given time, I'd have about two dozen different Linux distros burned
on disks lying about my desk. I built a few machines usingSlackware; that
was an excellent way to "get under the hood"
and I learned much with Slack as well as Gentoo. An associate showed me
the package management system and kernel build procedures for Debian and I
was intrigued. I had already built stuff
with Slackware, so I felt I had dirtied my hands a bit. But the
convenience of kernel building with Debian really was a plus.
Hope my input helps you...
JN
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Bert W. Carrier Jr.
<bertcarrier at gmail.com>wrote:
> This is a great discussion, thanks to all who contributed. It is also
> timely for me because support for my beloved Ubuntu 10.04LTS is coming to
> an end, and sooner or later I'll have to switch to something else. I don't
> care for Unity and Gnome 3.0 is too resource-hungry for my P4 2.4ghz
> machines. Any suggestions?
>
>
> On 07/21/2013 12:54 PM, ebcha1974 wrote:
>
> I really love MIR, I really love Unity and Gnome Shell And everything
> Ubuntu related. So whiners get over!
> By the way I am just kidding, I am actually running Arch with LXDE & X11.
> I just wanted to see how high the flames in this thread. You know there are
> no correct answers to this debate.
> Have a nice weekend.
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: linux-user-request at egr.msu.edu
> Date: 07/20/2013 12:00 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Subject: linux-user Digest, Vol 123, Issue 9
>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Chick Tower)
> 2. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Matt Parrott)
> 3. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (bfdamkoehler)
> 4. Re: Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User (Jonathan Billings)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:36:57 -0500
> From: Chick Tower <c.e.tower at gmail.com> <c.e.tower at gmail.com>
> To: "linux-user at egr.msu.edu" <linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> <linux-user at egr.msu.edu> <linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> Subject: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID: <51EA13E9.50804 at gmail.com> <51EA13E9.50804 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?
>
> http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html
> --
>
> Chick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:54:19 -0400
> From: Matt Parrott <parrott.matt at gmail.com> <parrott.matt at gmail.com>
> To: "linux-user at egr.msu.edu" <linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> <linux-user at egr.msu.edu> <linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID:
> <CAJqTABUKkx2W1FB7VJCH6RTpr_kWFXSeE+NgAG=utw_ehTSQ3g at mail.gmail.com><CAJqTABUKkx2W1FB7VJCH6RTpr_kWFXSeE+NgAG=utw_ehTSQ3g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The bad news is that the open source community has proven itself utterly
> incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core principles to the
> desktop, and has failed spectacularly. The good news is that the browser
> will completely swallow the desktop, which will place Linux in a tactically
> enviable position once again. Linux is going to win despite decades of
> heroic attempts to lose spectacularly at the GUI game.
>
> When you think about it philosophically, a computer desktop which is
> aligned with Unix principles would be networked, tools-and-pipes oriented,
> and flexible enough to deploy on a variety of operating systems and
> contexts. In other words, the Linux Desktop has been around the whole time
> and has been kicking ass. For historical reasons, the Linux Desktop is
> called a "web browser". A ChromeBook-like experience atop a Linux engine is
> the end game.
>
> I switched to ChromeBook a year ago and I haven't looked back (the keyboard
> is infinitely superior to the cluttered nightmare you get with Win boxes,
> like Happy Hacker laptop-edition). The community hasn't come around to
> providing the ChromeBook front-end with a local Linux backend, yet, but I
> can remotely access my EC2 box for my programming and sysadmin work, which
> works in my situation.
>
> For those unwilling to go that far, Lubuntu is a great way to enjoy
> Ubuntu's stable package management without being subjected to whatever
> bloated dead-end mess they're serving up for a GUI of the week.
>
> - Matt Parrott <http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt><http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt>? (317) 324-8282 ?
> Skype: matt.parrott
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Chick Tower <c.e.tower at gmail.com><c.e.tower at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?
> >
> > http://www.everydaylinuxuser.**com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.**html
> <http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html><http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html>
> > --
> >
> > Chick
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > linux-user mailing list
> > linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> > http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/**mailman/listinfo/linux-user
> <http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user><http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user>
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:59:39 -0400
> From: bfdamkoehler <bfdamkoehler at sbcglobal.net><bfdamkoehler at sbcglobal.net>
> To: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID: <51EAA5DB.50002 at sbcglobal.net> <51EAA5DB.50002 at sbcglobal.net>
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>
> Another way of looking at it is that when Linux started its goal was
> 100% alignment with the established "real" Unix base. Now that it has
> become a stronger force than "real" Unix, it is starting to shed some of
> the long time inefficiencies of Unix. X Windows has always had issues.
> We are now seeing a programming force around planet trying to come up
> with something better. Like anything open source in nature, there are a
> few contenders out there (Mir, Wayland). Time will show what happens...
>
> If you don't like Mir, there are plenty of other distros out there this
> still offer X Windows.
>
>
> On 07/20/2013 08:54 AM, Matt Parrott wrote:
> > The bad news is that the open source community has proven itself
> > utterly incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core
> > principles to the desktop, and has failed spectacularly. The good news
> > is that the browser will completely swallow the desktop, which will
> > place Linux in a tactically enviable position once again. Linux is
> > going to win despite decades of heroic attempts to lose spectacularly
> > at the GUI game.
> >
> > When you think about it philosophically, a computer desktop which is
> > aligned with Unix principles would be networked, tools-and-pipes
> > oriented, and flexible enough to deploy on a variety of operating
> > systems and contexts. In other words, the Linux Desktop has been
> > around the whole time and has been kicking ass. For historical
> > reasons, the Linux Desktop is called a "web browser". A
> > ChromeBook-like experience atop a Linux engine is the end game.
> >
> > I switched to ChromeBook a year ago and I haven't looked back (the
> > keyboard is infinitely superior to the cluttered nightmare you get
> > with Win boxes, like Happy Hacker laptop-edition). The community
> > hasn't come around to providing the ChromeBook front-end with a local
> > Linux backend, yet, but I can remotely access my EC2 box for my
> > programming and sysadmin work, which works in my situation.
> >
> > For those unwilling to go that far, Lubuntu is a great way to enjoy
> > Ubuntu's stable package management without being subjected to whatever
> > bloated dead-end mess they're serving up for a GUI of the week.
> >
> > - Matt Parrott <http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt><http://www.swarmstrategies.com/matt>? (317)
> > 324-8282 ? Skype: matt.parrott
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Chick Tower <c.e.tower at gmail.com
> > <mailto:c.e.tower at gmail.com> <c.e.tower at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Are any of the rest of you concerned about Mir?
> >
> > http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/07/why-i-left-ubuntu.html
> > --
> >
> > Chick
> > _______________________________________________
> > linux-user mailing list
> > linux-user at egr.msu.edu <mailto:linux-user at egr.msu.edu><linux-user at egr.msu.edu>
> > http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > linux-user mailing list
> > linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> > http://mailman.egr.msu.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-user
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:13:17 -0400
> From: Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org> <billings at negate.org>
> To: linux-user at egr.msu.edu
> Subject: Re: [GLLUG] Why I left Ubuntu ~ Everyday Linux User
> Message-ID: <20130720151317.GB12960 at negate.org><20130720151317.GB12960 at negate.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Sweetmorn, the 55th of Confusion, 3179 , Matt Parrott said:
> > The bad news is that the open source community has proven itself utterly
> > incapable of creatively and effectively adapting its core principles to
> the
> > desktop, and has failed spectacularly.
>
> Those are pretty bold premises, I assume you have evidence? As far as
> I can tell, Linux suffers from an abundance of creativity when it
> comes to adapting to the desktop, which is the whole reason why the
> Mir situation is so frustrating -- how can desktop environment
> developers expect to build a platform when the underpinnings are going
> in two (or more, if you count X) simultaneous directions?
>
> > The good news is that the browser
> > will completely swallow the desktop, which will place Linux in a
> tactically
> > enviable position once again. Linux is going to win despite decades of
> > heroic attempts to lose spectacularly at the GUI game.
>
> That is a particularly limited view of what Linux users use the
> Desktop to do. Perhaps your use cases are fine, but I doubt your
> claim covers all use.
>
> Perhaps you can get away with using a browser and an SSH client to do
> your job, but there are so many different uses of a Desktop system
> that currently do not work in a Browser, nor does it make sense to
> turn them into a web page. For example, much of the Scientific and
> Engineering software I support use extremely complicated interfaces
> and their own windowing toolkits, on both Windows and Linux. I see
> little incentive for these companies to turn them into browser-based
> applications.
>
> Anyway, as you end up buiding more and more complicated browser-based
> desktop environments, you're going to end up back at square one, where
> you've got a bunch of implementations that don't 100% work together,
> and you end up having to pick and choose which you can use. Have you
> ever tried to make a complicated web site work in both IE and Firefox?
> On top of that, IE works best with Microsoft's clouds, and Chrome
> works best with Google's cloud, and each company has an agenda to get
> you to use their browser. This leads to worse cross-browser support,
> and not better.
>
> On top of that, most of these browser-based desktops are NOT EVEN OPEN
> SOURCE. Sure, parts of the Chromebook's OS are based on source that's
> open, but to get it to work, you have to rely on Google's
> infrastructure, which is closed. Google Chrome itself has parts that
> aren't open.
>
> By pushing into closed clouds like Google, you're actually moving away
> from the Open Source community. I like Google, and I don't think that
> they're out to get us, but they have their own financial interests at
> heart, which doesn't necessarily overlap with the best interests of
> Linux users.
>
> Lastly, I have a bone to pick with Google. They dropped Chrome
> support for Red Hat Enterprise Linux and all the distros based off of
> RHEL (CentOS, Scientific Linux, PU_IAS, etc.). So, it's pretty clear
> they have no interest in supporting Enterprise customers. This leads
> me to believe that Google really only is interested in supporting
> their browsers on 1.) Their own OS 2.) Windows (They support Chrome on
> XP and MacOSX 10.6) and 3.) Non-enterprise linux users willing to
> always run cutting-edge OSs.
>
> --
> Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org> <billings at negate.org>
>
>
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