[GLLUG] more Penguicon thoughts

[Richard Houser]

I personally disagree with letting an 8 year old run loose in a place 
like that, but I also see the value of intentionally exposing a child to 
many such things.  The concern I've been expressing is about the 
liability aspect.  I have no problems letting parents make the exposure 
decisions for their kids (for good OR ill).  That's why I've been 
mentioning things like unattended minors (instead of just all kids) or 
seeing if we can get Penguicon to require some form of a permission slip 
for minors just so we have something on file.  That would at least 
protect us to some degree if a minor got into something they really 
shouldn't have.

I'm expressly for letting parents such as yourself make these kinds of 
decisions.  What I want is some form of an assurance that the parents 
actually made that decision and that the kids aren't either (a) other 
guests at the hotel or (b) Penguicon guests that snuck out while their 
parents were taking a nap.

As it was, we really had no way of knowing if the kids there really had 
their parents approval or not.  Most of them were not wearing badges and 
very well could have been other kids just staying at the hotel with 
inattentive parents.  Of all the kids running around, how many did you 
see with a parent at any point?

If one of those kids got into porn on one of the Internet machines and 
their parents found them in there with it, there's a real chance of a 
lawsuit from the parents (ever notice how a growing percentage of unfit 
parents tend to love throwing around lawsuits just fishing for a 
settlement?).  Now imagine the trouble a parents might cause if one of 
their kids ended up chatting with a pedophile from one of the lounge 
machines.

Far worse could happen at the con, but that's about as bad as it could 
get in the lounge where it is semi-public location (the semi being the 
screen content of many machines).  I'm just asking for some additional 
assurances towards the liability issue, not to dictate what choices 
parents can or can not make for their kids.

Clay Dowling wrote:
> Here's a wild and crazy thought:  Let's not substitute our judgement for 
> the judgement of the child's parents.  This didn't look like it was a 
> place that kids could get to without their parents bringing them.  I 
> didn't seem schools next door, or convenient sidewalks to residential 
> neighborhoods.
> 
> If the child managed to get into the convention, it stands to reason 
> that their parents know they're here.  It would be pretty difficult to 
> imagine that the parents didn't know what the place was like.  There are 
> warnings all over the web site and the program that stuff gets pretty 
> strong.  They should also work that out pretty quickly when they see the 
> cross-dressers walking around in the daylight (there were at least two).
> 
> If the parents have a problem with this kind of content, they've already 
> left long before they have let their child run loose and unattended in 
> the computer lounge.  The parent who does that has made an assessment 
> that it's a safe environment for their kid.
> 
> You personally might not be comfortable with children seeing that kind 
> of content, and in that case I would strongly suggest not bringing your 
> own children if you have any.  But I don't think that it's a good idea 
> to make that decision for other people's children.  As a step-father 
> I've had to learn to walk that delicate line on a pretty much daily basis.
> 
> Clay
> 
> 
> Richard Houser wrote:
>> Exactly, it's all a matter of censorship and liability.  Whether it 
>> would stand up in court or not, I'd rather Penguicon not end up in a 
>> legal battle over something a kid did or saw while at Penguicon.  I 
>> was shooting for the same type of thing, but picked 13 as that was the 
>> age given in the Penguicon materials for age appropriateness.  
>> Personally, I'd be all for bumping that up to 16 or so, but I was just 
>> basing it off the verbiage existing rules.  Eighteen seems too old of 
>> a limit to me, as a 16 year old could legally create offspring of 
>> his/her own.
>>
>> Perhaps we could get Penguicon to require permission slips and issue 
>> different badge colors to minors?  I.e., someone cannot enter with a 
>> blue badge (minor) unless accompanied with a green badge (adult).  
>> Those  16+ (or whatever age) with parents requesting unrestricted 
>> access get an orange badge.
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